“Christian” on Joe Rogan Argues the Bible Is Pro-Abortion—How Do His Arguments Hold Up to Scripture?

This verse comes to mind after watching a truly atrocious clip from an interview on the podcast The Joe Rogan Experience, featuring Texas State Representative James Talarico, who is also a professing progressive Christian. In this four-minute clip, Talarico argues that there is “no historical, theological, biblical basis” for saying Christians must oppose abortion and that “this idea that there is a set Christian orthodoxy on the issue of abortion, it’s just not rooted in Scripture.”

And then Talarico goes even further to argue that the Bible is actually pro-abortion.

Now, we’ve laid out the biblical arguments for the pro-life position before (for example, in this, this, and this article), so I’m just going to deal with his supposed “biblical” pro-abortion arguments in this post—and (spoiler!) they all involve a truly atrocious twisting of Scripture.

Only Jesus’ Words Matter?

But before we look at his three statements, I want to highlight something he said at the very beginning of this particular discussion: “I get suspicious when anybody . . . tells me that something is central to my faith, when Jesus never talks about it. To me that should, I think, ring alarm bells.  . . .”

Jesus is the Word, and Jesus is God, and every word of Scripture is the word of Jesus.

Now, for any Christian, that statement should immediately ring alarm bells! What Talarico is saying is that only the “red letters”—the statements of Jesus in the gospels—are what we really need to be concerned about (a very common progressive talking point). In other words, he doesn’t see Scripture as the very Word of God (the Word of Christ) or that all Scripture is authoritative. That automatically tells me this person is either a progressive or leans progressive. Basically, he doesn’t take God’s Word seriously. Jesus is the Word, and Jesus is God, and every word of Scripture is the word of Jesus.

For Talarico’s main arguments (he also had another side point where he claims some believe the Torah gives instructions on how to have an abortion—we refuted that claim in this article by AiG’s Troy Lacey and Dr. Tim Chaffey), he claimed there’s biblical evidence to support the pro-abortion position. When Rogan asked for the evidence, Talarico gave three examples—including one from Genesis!

1. Talarico summarizes Genesis 2:7 (“Then the LORD God formed the man of dust from the ground and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life, and the man became a living creature”). He then extrapolates this to say, “Life starts when you take your first breath.”
   
   AiG’s Avery Foley has written an entire article refuting this ridiculous argument, but suffice it to say here that (1) This is obviously a unique circumstance! Genesis 2:7 is not about normal human development; it is describing the unique creation of the very first man; (2) Eve was not given the breath of life—so is he saying women are therefore not people? (3) To be consistent, he must say that life begins when dirt is fashioned into a person and the breath of life is given to them, but he conveniently ignores the first half of Adam’s creation; (4) His very premise is flawed, as babies breathe in the womb! They take in oxygen and expel carbon dioxide via the umbilical cord.
2. He notes that Jesus broke cultural norms regarding women, specifically by talking to them, an “affirmation of women as full and equal people.”
   
   Talarico doesn’t specify what this has to do with abortion, but presumably he’s saying that if a woman cannot kill her unborn child she is not a full or equal person with men. The assumption here is that men do not carry children and to be equal with them, women must also be able to remove the consequences of sexual activity to likewise not have to carry a child.
   
   But Jesus talking with women—and treating them as equally made in God’s image, equally valuable, and equally able to be saved by his death and resurrection—has nothing to do with the ethics of a woman killing her child in the womb! There are so many unspoken assumptions he’s bringing into his argument.
   
   Really, what he’s saying is that for a woman to be equal with a man, she must be allowed to get rid of what God designed her uniquely as a woman to be able to do—nurture and bear new life. His version of “equality” is not how the Bible treats men and women, who are equal in standing before God but unique in their roles (and their biology and biological abilities!).
3. He claims God asked for Mary’s consent before the Holy Spirit overshadowed her in the incarnation, with the angel asking her “if this is something she wants to do.” Talarico says this shows us that “creation has to be done with consent.”
   
   To refute this argument, simply go and read the passage!

   In the sixth month the angel Gabriel was sent from God to a city of Galilee named Nazareth, to a virgin betrothed to a man whose name was Joseph, of the house of David. And the virgin's name was Mary. And he came to her and said, “Greetings, O favored one, the Lord is with you!” But she was greatly troubled at the saying, and tried to discern what sort of greeting this might be. And the angel said to her, “Do not be afraid, Mary, for you have found favor with God. And behold, you will conceive in your womb and bear a son, and you shall call his name Jesus. He will be great and will be called the Son of the Most High. And the Lord God will give to him the throne of his father David, and he will reign over the house of Jacob forever, and of his kingdom there will be no end.”
   
   And Mary said to the angel, “How will this be, since I am a virgin?”
   
   And the angel answered her, “The Holy Spirit will come upon you, and the power of the Most High will overshadow you; therefore the child to be born will be called holy—the Son of God. And behold, your relative Elizabeth in her old age has also conceived a son, and this is the sixth month with her who was called barren. For nothing will be impossible with God.” And Mary said, “Behold, I am the servant of the Lord; let it be to me according to your word.” And the angel departed from her. (Luke 1:26–38)

   Where exactly does the angel ask Mary’s permission for her to be the chosen mother of the Messiah? Nowhere. The angel comes and tells Mary what will happen, she asks how, he explains, and she submits in obedience to God’s spoken Word.
   
   Now, would Talarico argue that if Mary changed her mind at, say, the third month, it would have been okay for her to take an herbal concoction to induce an abortion to kill God’s Son since God no longer had her “consent”? That’s where his argument leads!
   
   

   He is the authority of life and death, the one who gives “life and breath and everything” (Acts 17:25). We are not God.

   And did you notice the hidden assumption in his interpretation of this passage that “creation has to be done with consent?” He is assuming that it is we humans who create life. Yes, God has designed life to come about through natural means (in the marriage of one man and one woman), but ultimately we do not create life—God does. It is he who knits life together (Psalm 139) and opens and closes the womb (e.g., Genesis 20:18). He is the authority of life and death, the one who gives “life and breath and everything” (Acts 17:25). We are not God.

Talarico is completely twisting Scripture to support the murder of babies! He is absolutely no different from the “Christians” and “pastors” who likewise twisted Scripture to support slavery in the pre–Civil War era. He’s relegated a class of human beings to “subhuman” and then said it’s okay to treat them any way you want. It’s vile. It’s atrocious.

Someday Talarico will have to stand before God and give an account for his mishandling of God’s precious Word and for his support of the murder of the children God is knitting together. And he should be aware that, as a professed teacher (at least on this podcast) of God’s Word, he will receive a stricter judgment for his errors:

Not many of you should become teachers, my brothers, for you know that we who teach will be judged with greater strictness. (James 3:1)

I pray he repents before he stands before the Almighty God who hates hands that shed innocent blood (Proverbs 6:16–17) and who hears the cries of the blood of the murdered from the ground (Genesis 4:10).

Thanks for stopping by and thanks for praying,
Ken

This item was written with the assistance of AIG’s research team.