Time Zones and the Flat Earth 2

Another Time Zone Argument

However, there is another time zone claim among flat-earthers that comes up from time to time. Credit for this one goes to a man named Brian who posts videos on the YouTube channel Brian’s Logic. Brian also is an associate of Nathan Oakley and John Stunja, two flat-earthers that I have discussed before, and so Brian is a frequent member of the panels on Nathan’s and John’s channels. In a recent program on John’s channel, Brian spoke about this other time zone argument. To hear this argument, listen for two minutes starting at 1:53:15.

I will summarize Brian’s argument. Charleston, South Carolina, and Long Beach, California, are near the 32° north parallel of latitude, while New Castle, New South Wales, and Perth, Western Australia, are near the 32° south parallel of latitude. Brian noted that the distance between either pair of cities is about the same, with only a 108-mile difference. Brian pointed out that the time difference between Charleston and Long Beach is three hours, while the time difference between New Castle and Perth is only two hours. Brian reasoned that if the earth were a globe, then the distance between longitude lines ought to increase from the North Pole to the equator but then decrease between the equator and the South Pole. That way, if one measured the linear distances between two meridians of longitude measured along parallels of the same latitude but one parallel north of the equator and the other parallel south of the equator, then the two distances ought to be the same. On the other hand, if the earth were flat, the distance between longitude lines ought to continually increase with increasing distance from the North Pole. Brian concluded that since the time difference between the two Australian cities is less than the time difference between the two American cities, even though the linear distance between the pairs of cities is about the same, the earth must be flat and not a globe.

Critical Analysis of This Claim

I can ask two quick questions about Brian’s argument. First, how does Brian know the distance between the two pairs of cities? As Brian argued, longitude lines on a flat earth ought to continually increase with increasing distance from the North Pole. Flat-earthers generally believe that the center of the flat earth is the North Pole, so an azimuthal equidistant map ought to capture flat-earthers’ understanding of the earth (See Figure). Indeed, many flat-earthers endorse this sort of map of the earth without endorsing any particular map. Notice on this map how much wider east to west Australia is than the United States. This is a consequence of longitude lines diverging from the North Pole on such a projection, or on a flat earth. If the longitude difference between the two Australian cities is comparable to the longitude difference between the two US cities, then this stretching on a flat earth is unavoidable, and the linear distance between the two pairs of cities cannot be comparable. But unlike many other flat-earthers, John and his associates made it very clear that they don’t endorse any map of the earth (that is a convenient choice—if they don’t endorse a map, then what they believe about the earth cannot be tested—more about that later). On the other hand, if one accepts the linear distance between the two pairs of cities as Brian did, then on a flat earth, it is equally unavoidable that the longitude difference between the two pairs of cities cannot be the same. Brian can’t have it both ways, on a flat earth accepting both the linear distances between the cities and the longitude differences between the cities, yet he did.

This brings up my second question: rather than expressing the angular separation between the two pairs of cities in terms of the time difference, why didn’t Brian use the more direct measurement of the longitude difference between the two pairs of cities? After all, Brian’s argument is really about the longitude difference, not the time difference. I looked up the longitudes of the four cities on Wikipedia, and I listed them in the table below. I rounded to the nearest minute of arc. For those not familiar with minutes and seconds of arc, a degree is divided into 60 minutes, and each minute is further divided into 60 seconds. With the widespread use of electronic calculators over the past half century, minutes and seconds of arc are not taught much in schools anymore. I rounded the listed longitudes to the nearest minute of arc.

The difference in longitude between Charleston and Long Beach is 38° 16´, while the difference in longitude between New Castle and Perth is 35° 53´. That is, the two US cities are only 2° 23´ farther apart than the pair of Australian cities. At a latitude of 32°, a difference in longitude of 2° 23´ corresponds to a difference of 140 miles. That is not much greater than the 108-mile difference that Brian gave. Brian didn’t state which of the two distances was greater, but I assume that the two US cities are slightly farther apart than the pair of Australian cities. Given the likely errors involved and unspecified portions of the cities were the starting and stopping points for the distances, a difference of 32 miles between 108 miles and 140 miles is reasonable.

What is the time difference between the pairs of cities? As I explained in my earlier blog post, every 15° of longitude corresponds to one hour of time. Therefore, the time difference between Charleston and Long Beach is 2:33, while the time difference between New Castle and Perth is 2:23. Thus, the difference in time between the two US cities is only 10 minutes greater than the difference in time between the pair of Australian cities. Keep in mind that these time differences are in local time, not standard time. Local time is what a sundial reads, and it changes by four minutes for each degree of longitude. If we followed local time, then it would be very confusing because every town would observe different times. For much of history, this wasn’t a problem. But as I explained in my earlier blog post, by the latter part of the nineteenth century, advancements in communication and transportation made continued observance of local time infeasible, so railroads instituted standard time, which established time zones. Ideally, each time zone is defined by standard meridians of longitude at intervals of 15°. For instance, if this practice were strictly followed, then the Eastern Standard Time (EST) Zone would span between 67° 30´ west and 82° 30´ west. Of course, such strict adherence to this definition of time zones is not practical—imagine if your home straddled the boundary.

Where to draw the lines between time zones often is not an easy decision.

Where to draw the lines between time zones often is not an easy decision. New Castle and Perth are about as widely separated on the continent of Australia as one can get. Since the time difference between the two cities rounds to two hours, it makes sense to have a two-hour time difference between the east and west coasts of Australia. Furthermore, New Castle is a little less than two degrees from the meridian of Australian Eastern Standard Time (AEST, 150° E), so the standard time is off only seven minutes from the local time (local noon occurs at 12:07 p.m. AEST). Meanwhile, Perth is a little more than four degrees from the meridian of Australian Western Standard Time (AWST, 120° E), so the standard time is 16 minutes off from local time (local noon occurs at 11:44 a.m. AWST). Note that 7 minutes + 16 minutes = 23 minutes, the additional time beyond the two hours of local time difference between the two cities.

But the local time difference between Charleston and Long Beach is 10 minutes greater, three minutes longer than 2 ½ hours. Therefore, strict adherence to 15-degree wide time zones would dictate that there be a three-hour standard time difference between those two cities. If Charleston were at the eastern extreme of the US, then gerrymandering of the time zone borders to get a two-hour difference between the east and west coasts of the US would work. But Charleston is far from the easternmost part of the US. For instance, Boston is nearly 8 ½ degrees (nearly 34 minutes in time) east of Charleston, and most of the state of Maine is east of Boston. Thus, the local time difference between the east and west coasts of the US is more than three hours (2:33 + 0:34 = 3:07 just between Long Beach and Boston), so a three-hour standard time difference across the lower 48 of the US is warranted.

There is an additional check of Brian’s argument that I can supply. This website gives distances between cities. Inputting Charleston and Long Beach, I got 2,198 miles, while the distance between New Castle and Perth worked out to be 2,090 miles. Since this is a difference of 108 miles, Brian must have used this or a similar website to compare the distances between the two pairs of cities. Let us quantify on a flat earth how much the linear distance between two longitudes increases from the 32° north parallel of latitude and the 32° south parallel of latitude. The 32° parallel is 58° from the North Pole, the center of the flat earth. The 32° south parallel of latitude is an additional 64 degrees from the North Pole (32 + 32 = 64). Therefore, the ratio of distances measured between meridians of longitude on the 32° south parallel and the 32° north parallel is (58 + 64)/58 = 2.1. Therefore, if Brian’s analysis is correct, then the distance between New Castle and Perth ought to be (2.1) x (2,198 miles) = 4,600 miles. That is considerably more than the 108 miles that Brian noted. This is why Australia appears so stretched out on azimuthal equidistant maps. From what I noted earlier, I’m sure that Brian and his associates would dismiss any azimuthal equidistant maps—remember they don’t have a map of the flat earth. But Brian’s argument implicitly assumes an azimuthal equidistant map. Otherwise, why would one expect the distance between meridians of longitude to continue to increase past the equator? When Brian’s analysis is done properly, it ends up proving the earth is not flat.

Conclusion

Alas, critical evaluation of flat-earth arguments within that movement is seriously lacking.

Brian has identified a problem that does not exist, for the local time difference between the two pairs of cities is about the same. But we observe standard time, not local time. Given the wider east-west extent that the US has over Australia, it is not surprising that there is a two-hour east coast/west coast time zone difference in Australia while the US has a three-hour east coast/west coast time zone difference. If Brian had checked the longitude difference between the two pairs of cities rather than the time zone difference, he might have seen that his argument is fallacious. After all, the real issue is about the longitude difference, not the standard time difference. Even better, if Brian had quantified his claim about consistently increasing distance between meridians of longitude as I did, then he would have discovered that he ended up disproving the earth is flat. Brian surrounds himself with Nathan Oakley, John Stunja, and others on their panels who obviously believe that they are the crème de la crème of the flat-earth movement. So why didn’t any of his associates recognize the failure of Brian’s proof? Alas, critical evaluation of flat-earth arguments within that movement is seriously lacking. Consequently, internal quality control of flat-earther arguments is virtually nonexistent. Flat-earthers are so committed to their cult that they uncritically repeat the claims of other cult members, never properly scrutinizing their claims. If they did, they would have to leave the flat-earth cult.